How does the Bible inform our understanding of diversity in relation to immigrants and refugees? What does God’s word say about how we should respond? In this video, Converge Biblical Diversity Co-Directors Jim Eaton and Roderick Hairston provide a biblically grounded perspective on this complex issue.
They unpack key scriptures that address the treatment of foreigners, emphasizing themes of justice, compassion, and remembrance of one’s own history. Eaton and Hairston challenge viewers to move beyond political rhetoric and embrace a Christ-like response to immigrants and refugees, recognizing God’s work in bringing people together from all nations.
Transcript
Jim Eaton: All right, we’d like to have a conversation, and I’m eager for this, because I think this is something that, again, is very close to God’s heart, and it’s something that’s close to my heart as well. But let’s talk a little bit about diversity and how it relates to immigrants and refugees. And I think, once again, we’re discovering, in the Word of God, there is a mine here. It’s a rich and deep mine of what God has to say and how His heart and His posture is toward those who are on the outside of society, those who are marginalized, those who are suffering. So I’d like to have us kind of work with that a little bit.
Rod Hairston: That’s a challenging conversation, Jim. It’s a really challenging conversation. It’s a very present conversation. In fact, it’s been, you know, sort of top of mind in our nation for a long time, the discussion about immigration. But I’m grateful. I think that’s the word, I’m very grateful that the Word of the Lord gives us clarity for this subject.
Jim: Yes.
Rod: Wherever we see these deep, painful sociological issues, I just keep going back to the Bible, and that helps me to get clarity as to how we should be responding, because so often the news tells us how to respond, or political leanings tell people how to respond. And I think we should keep going back to the Scriptures. This issue of immigration, interestingly, is at the very core of our country’s existence.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: There’s no one here, apart from Native people, Native Americans, who did not immigrate here, which is very interesting. So we are a nation of over 350 million, and everybody has some lineage related to immigration here.
Jim: Yes, that’s right. And God’s Word is really clear on this. And I think of a passage, for example, here’s one in the Book of Exodus. 22 says: “You must not mistreat.” Oh, I’m sorry, “You must not exploit a resident alien or oppress him, since you were resident aliens in the land of Egypt.” So God is saying, “As you enter into your new land, your Promised Land, and others will come into the land, they might be sojourning through, they might be coming to settle, to live, to make it their home, you are not to oppress them. You’re not to make them second-class citizens. You are to honor them and respect them and be compassionate for them, and not forget that, remember, at one time, that’s where you were in Egypt.”
Rod: That’s a great point of God’s instruction to them, because of this reason. He says, “Because you were once slaves in Egypt.” He says, “Don’t forget where you came from.”
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: Don’t forget where you came from. Don’t forget what your experience was. And I think so often we forget what our experiences were. You know, like it would be unkind of me knowing that my ancestors did not choose to come to America. We were brought against our wills, right? In the interest of the slave trade. And so if I treat people who are immigrants to America who are trying to get away from painful issues in their home countries, then it would be against God’s instruction. It would be against His heart, right? That posture, that disposition would be contrary to what God wants.
Jim: Absolutely. And I think we need to say kind of at the outset as we’re having this conversation, I think we’re all on this page, that it is the right of any nation to regulate its borders, to have policies and laws. When we lived in South Africa, we had to follow the immigration policies. Every so often I would check into an office in the city we were living in and fill out paperwork and keep my documents correct. I think that’s a clear and reasonable thing, that countries should be able to regulate their borders. I think where sometimes I feel a concern is where that sort of morphs over into a sentiment that feels like it’s an animosity toward all people who are immigrants. And there are many who come here in absolutely desperate conditions, desperate situations. I remember when we had to evacuate out of Bangladesh when I was a boy, and in a sense, although we were American citizens, we had to come into America hurriedly because of the war situation. And I remember being on that ship, coming out of the country in the war zone. There were others who were refugees coming out, and what that felt like to just be having to flee, literally packing our suitcases in two hours and get out of the country. And so when we have, this is one of the things I’ve always loved about our country, is the Statue of Liberty. And the Statue of Liberty has a fascinating history, because it was erected by the French to glorify the sort of secular idea of liberty. But the person who wrote the poem we learn in school, Emma Lazarus, was the daughter of Jewish immigrants.
Rod: Wow.
Jim: And she changed the message of the statue from sort of a proud, atheistic, secular liberty to a welcoming person for those who don’t have anything.
Rod: Wow, wow. That’s great history.
Jim: “Give me your poor, give me your tired.”
Rod: “Tired, your huddled masses.” Wow. That’s great context. I think we need that, Jim.
Jim:We do.
Rod: I think we need those reminders. You know, I think it’s important to remember that we never go wrong being compassionate toward people. We never go wrong. And I agree with you that order at borders is important, right? We’re a very transient world, right? And so there are border crossings all over the world and nations are trying to figure out what to do. It comes down to, I think, two issues. One is resources. The other one is races, right? So a lot of the opposition is against people who are fleeing, who are oftentimes entering countries where they are of a different race or ethnicity. And I think we have to be mindful of that, right? Because God has a, He has a posture toward people who are in these predicaments.
Jim: So true. And I know we’ve been doing this listening tour going around to different regions around our country, and it’s been such a blessing. And not that long ago, we were in the Upper Midwest, and we learned something as we were interacting there about the cities, like Fargo and Kansas City and Omaha and Oklahoma City are all going through a similar dynamic. There are refugees and immigrants coming to those cities. And the word is, okay, the winters can be brutal, but if you can make it through the winters, the people are kind and welcoming. The cost of living is low. You can start a business, you can start your life over. And there are Somali immigrants, there are Sudanese immigrants, Chinese, Bangladeshis. I didn’t know that. But what an incredible opportunity for ministry to say, our community is changing. God’s heart is already there. We just need to strategically figure out how to bless them, how to serve.
Rod: And really how to partner with.
Jim: Partner with, yeah.
Rod: That’s really what God calls us to, right? That’s how we partner with God in the interest of people. Because the great commission gives us our great foundation, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel,” right? “Make disciples of all nations.” Isn’t it interesting that the immigration story of the world is a story of God moving people to places.
Jim: Ah, that’s so good. That’s so good.
Rod: It’s not like God doesn’t know. He’s moving people to places. And so the likelihood of me going to some countries where some people are coming from to share the gospel with them is very low. But if they’re here, I get to share the gospel with them. I get to build relationships that will demonstrate the gospel. And the truth is, Jim, a lot of people who are coming to America are coming with the gospel.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: To a nation that, you know, where everybody has not heard the gospel.
Jim: Oh, that’s good. That’s good, because that kind of stretches our own narrative, our own paradigm. We’re not used to thinking that way. We’re used to thinking of America as the Christian country sending missionaries, and thank God we have done that for generations. But now, I mean, there are more Christians per capita in South Korea than there are in America, and the true Church in China is enormous and very vibrant. So you’re right, there are many people coming to this country from Latin American countries, Sub-Saharan African countries. The gospel’s just exploding in some of those nations. They’re coming here and they really, in some cases, have more of a spirit of true faith-filled prayer, of just sacrificing everything just to make the gospel central. And I think God is wanting us to keep our hearts open for how He may not only use us around the world, but use the world to revitalize us.
Rod: To revitalize us, yeah. There seems to be something very God-like in this. When at the Tower of Babel He began to separate the nations. Well, in the Book of Revelation, he brings all the nations together.
Jim: Yeah, that’s right.
Rod: And I wonder what kind of move of God is afoot in our world that we don’t wanna rail against, but we want to cooperate with.
Jim: Yeah, that’s right.
Rod: So that His kingdom will indeed come.
Jim: Amen.
Rod: So that we can speed the return of the Lord by accelerating the gospel. At the core of all of this, Jim, we have to be thinking gospel, good news, Jesus. How do we build relationships with people from different places? You know, I was talking to a friend who has a cleaning company, and I forget which country they’re from. I wanna say Guatemala. And I asked her the other day, I said, “How are things for you, given a lot of the things that are in the political atmosphere?” And she said to me, she said, “It’s really scary for us.” She said, “We’re very nervous driving to our clients, because we don’t know what could happen to us any day.” And some people have stopped utilizing their services. And I said, “You know, I want you to know that anything we have, you’re welcome to.”
Jim:Amen.
Rod: “And if you want if you want a safe place to just come and be and relax, come to our home.”
Jim: Amen.
Rod: “Come to our church, right? We’ll love you and care for you.” And I got to pray for her, pray for her team. And she just, with tears in her eyes, just said, “Thank you so much.” And she’s not a believer yet. She’s not a believer. But I’m believing that God will use our relationship to bring her to faith in Jesus.
Jim: Oh, that’s so good. Natalie and I had something happen just last week where we were invited to an event in the D.C. area, and it was put together by Pakistani Christians. So everybody in the room were Christians, but they were Pakistanis and some of them live in Pakistan. They were attorneys. And the theme of the evening was to advocate for the Christians in Pakistan who are being persecuted because of Pakistan’s blasphemy law. So it was a very moving evening. And I was blessed to be invited to speak as well, but the conversations afterward, I just stood there thinking, I’m interacting with so many Pakistani American Christians. They are now Americans. But they’re using their life story and their resources to try to make some kind of an impact for their brothers and sisters back in Pakistan. And I’m thinking, look at how God can use the migration patterns of this world for His honor and His glory.
Rod: Yes. Isn’t it like God, Jim? It’s just like God to bring people our way, to say it’s not us versus them.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: It’s us loving one another, caring for one another, seeking to lead people to faith. So we’ve been on this real trip about what does the Bible say about all of these things. Why don’t we turn to some scriptures-
Jim: Yeah, let’s do that.
Rod: Just to share with you what we see in the Scriptures concerning these matters of biblical diversity and immigration. What scriptures just come to mind for you?
Jim: Well, I just read from Exodus 22. What passage do you have?
Rod: Isaiah 1:17 comes to mind for me, and then I’ll jump over to Isaiah 10:2-5. At Isaiah 1:17, it says, “Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.” And where he talks about the oppressed, in some translations it talks about the foreigner, the alien. In chapter 10, Isaiah says, well, let’s go to verse one. We’ll go to one to five. He says, “Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,” my people, “making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches? Nothing will remain but to cringe among the captives or fall among the slain. Yet for all this, His anger is not turned away, His hand is still upraised.” God is really serious about this whole notion of oppressing those who are in need of our love and our support and our care, our compassion.
Jim: Here’s one from Deuteronomy 10. In Deuteronomy chapter 10, it says this. “For the Lord your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, mighty, and awe-inspiring God, showing no partiality and taking no bribe. He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow,” like in James chapter one. This is the test of your true faith. You care for the fatherless and the widow. “And loves the resident alien, giving him food and clothing.” God has a special place in His heart, and this is always true throughout the Scripture, right? I mean, look at the life of Jesus.
Rod: Yes.
Jim: Like when He would come up against someone who was an outcast, a leper, or one time coming out of the city was a mother and she had lost her only son.
Rod: Yes.
Jim: And here Jesus’ heart especially goes toward the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow. “You are also to love the resident alien, since you were resident aliens in the land of Egypt.” Deuteronomy 10.
Rod: Brilliant. Brilliant. We have so much foundation in the Word when it comes to these sociological issues, and we have the example of Jesus, right? Who was an immigrant himself.
Jim: Yes.
Rod: Having to flee to Egypt. We go back to the story of Abram having to leave Ur of the Chaldees, coming into Canaan, right? So this whole story of migration, and then, of course, Israel being taken captive in Egypt, as you just mentioned. This whole matter of migration, immigration, is so present in the Scriptures, and we have a lot of clarity that can help us really do what God would want for us. And just imagine, Jim, just imagine if our movement, and if every church, every believer in this land took these postures, what would happen in the interest of the gospel and in our care for people.
Jim: Amen, amen.