In this episode of our Biblical Diversity series, Pastors Jim Eaton and Rod Hairston dive into why relationships are so central to Biblical diversity efforts? Through Biblical examples and personal stories, they reflect on how our ability to connect with one another—across lines of difference—is not only foundational to the gospel, but essential to healing division both inside and outside the church.
They explore how relational gaps contribute to stereotypes and misunderstanding, and why political differences should never outweigh our spiritual unity in Christ. From cross-cultural friendships to hard conversations within the body of believers, Pastors Jim and Rod offer wisdom, hope, and practical encouragement for anyone seeking to live out the gospel in a diverse world.
If you’re feeling overwhelmed by division, or unsure where to begin in building bridges, this conversation reminds us: it all starts with relationship.
Transcript
Jim Eaton: So we’d like to talk about something in this conversation and it’s one that I love to talk about, so why is relationship so central to efforts in diversity? Why is that?
Rod Hairston: Ooh, okay. These questions just keep getting gooder.
Jim: Mm. Good stuff.
Rod: Yeah, good stuff, man.
Jim: I mean, you and I have a relationship.
Rod: Yeah.
Jim: So, but why is it so important?
Rod: I don’t think you can, there’s no way you can get to know people, you know what I mean, apart from relationship. It’s baked into us. Like we are wired for relationship, first of all, right, and there is a devil, by the way, who wants to kill, steal and destroy. He uses all of those strategies against our relationships, especially in the body of Christ.
Jim: Yeah.
Rod: But specifically for diversity, because of the natural disconnects, until we work to get to know one another, to appreciate one another, to respect one another in relationship, I think diversity is impossible.
Jim: I think so too, and just think about how often in our society today, it’s like everything’s backwards. It’s like people’s, not everybody, obviously, but many people’s only real exposure to diversity is through the news, it’s through social media, and it’s distant from relationship. That’s how stereotypes get magnified. That’s how false impressions of people get built because it’s like, well, I already know. How do you know? Well, I watch this program, I listen to this podcast. But how many actual relationships do you have with people who are very different from you? When you pull up your phone and you pull up your text threads and you look down there, does everybody look like you? Is everybody exactly the same, or is there different, are there relationship differences?
Rod: Oh, Jim, so, you just said so much. But the relationship factor, I go back to it’s so essential. We can’t enjoy marriage without relationship. We can’t enjoy God without relationship. Jesus’s prayer, His high priestly prayer in John 17 was that we would be one.
Jim: Yeah.
Rod: Right? That being implied closely connected in relationship. So much of the New Testament. In Psalm 133.
Jim: Yeah.
Rod: Right? Calls us to this unity of relationship as brothers and as sisters. Can we go one layer deeper on this though, Jim? We are in such a politically divided time in our nation.
Jim: Yes, we are.
Rod: And that very same division has shown up painfully that this big fissure in the church.
Jim: Yes, yes.
Rod: So that we, it’s like there’s more of an embrace of political ideology than there is biblical theology.
Jim: Yes.
Rod: We could differ politically.
Jim: Yes.
Rod: But we cannot be divided-
Jim: That’s right. That’s right.
Rod: Spiritually and really be earnest to the call of God-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: For the diversity-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: That will lead to the spread of the gospel.
Jim: That is so powerful. That is so profound what you’re saying. It is so true that this is where we are right now as a nation. I’ve even heard statistics that there are people now who will, they’ll connect over all kinds of things, but they won’t connect at all over political issues, and that’s just somehow, that’s really backwards because, I mean, I once heard an evangelical pastor say in his message something the effect that if you vote democratic, you’re outside of the will of God. Well, all what he’s doing immediately, whether he knows it or not, is dismissing enormous groups of people throughout our country who are walking with God and love the Lord, but have different sets of metrics as to how they’re going to come at this voting, and I’m not endorsing one party or the other. That has never been an issue for me. We’ve always said we’re nonpartisan, the gospel is nonpartisan. It’s just to recognize, all right, if that man had really deep relationships-
Rod: That part of it.
Jim: With some African American pastors, he wouldn’t say that.
Rod: He wouldn’t say that.
Jim: Because he’d have the relationship credibility-
Rod: Yes.
Jim: To let you know there’s a bigger world out there-
Rod: Yes.
Jim: Than just the world of his own experience.
Rod: We cannot have, you know the Bible says love one another, honor one another, forgive one another. There’s all these one another’s in the New Testament that call us to relationship, and if it doesn’t start in the body of Christ, it will not exist in the world.
Jim: That’s right. That’s right.
Rod: Because the world is not gonna be the Savior of the world. Right, the body of Christ, those of us who know the name of Jesus, we will be the ones who will bring the balm-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: Of Jesus’s presence and His love that to the world. But he says, if we don’t love one another, right, they’ll know we’re Christians-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: By our love one for another.
Jim: That’s exactly right.
Rod: Relationship is everything.
Jim: It’s everything.
Rod: And if I’m a relationship with you, that means I take the time to get to know you. That means we’ll have differences that we can work through.
Jim: That’s right, we can talk them through.
Rod: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah.
Rod: That means we can hurt one another and still forgive one another.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: And actually, according to Matthew 18, our relationship will get better.
Jim: It’ll get better, just like in a good marriage. I mean, I’m sure your marriage is, well, maybe it’s not, maybe you and Sherry have never had a disagreement.
Rod: We have never.
Jim: Never had conflict.
Rod: In 34 years, we’ve never had one.
Jim: But I know in my marriage, we’ve been through all kinds of conflicts and disagreements, but we are so committed that Christ is at the center of our marriage and we are going to come through this and he always builds the marriage stronger on the other side. You know, I think in addition to this, the whole aspect of how we’re to live as people bearing witness to the gospel in a watching world, is relationship is so crucial.
Rod: Relationship is everything.
Jim: You know, God has opened up all kinds of doors and blessed Natalie and me so greatly in the last few years with deep, true relationships with Jews and Muslims in the Washington DC area, and I was having a conversation one time with a man who’s a dear friend, and he’s an imam, and he said, “Jim, I know that deep in your heart, you would like to lead me to Christ.” And I said, “Yes, I would.” He said, “I know you would like to baptize me.” And I said, “Yes, I would.” He said, “But would you mind telling some of your other Christian friends, it would be easier to convert us if you liked us.”
Rod: Relationship.
Jim: And I thought on that. And as I drove home, I grieved because I thought what he’s saying is, in his experience, Christians do not like him and his mosque. They don’t like the people in his mosque. And I’m like, “How did we get here?” When Jesus was so clear, not only by His teaching, but by His example. Jesus was constantly interacting with people-
Rod: Yes.
Jim: Who were not yet believers. He never compromised His principles. He never gave away His belief or His truth. He hung onto it dearly and very succinctly and could speak very powerfully whenever the occasion called for it, but He was so gracious and humble to love people where they were. And I think sometimes our gospel witness is hampered, not so much because we don’t have good strategies or good white papers, but because we’re just not willing to walk in relationship with people.
Rod: Jim, oh my goodness. I’m sitting here listening to you wondering why that so many Christians are so quick to dismiss, to reject, to be against people who don’t look like, believe like, think like we do, who don’t hold our worldview. Why does that mean that I have to be against you?
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: And we do it in wholesale fashion, and then we make them the enemy-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: The enemy of our comfort, the enemy of our nation, the enemy of our faith, when what Jesus did was have relationships-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: With these people who were outside of his own worldview, if you will. He built relationships, and I think if we’re gonna be true to the gospel, we have to take it upon ourselves and become better at building relationships-
Jim: That’s right. Amen.
Rod: Because, as you and I were talking about earlier, a gospel that is only presentation, but without representation, without incarnation-
Jim: That’s it.
Rod: Without how we live it, how people experience us, is to many people know gospel at all.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: Because people don’t really care how much you know-
Jim: Until they know how much you care.
Rod: Until they know how much you care.
Jim: Amen.
Rod: Y’all, we’ve got a serious, serious mandate on us and we wanna challenge, when I say us, we’re talking about you and us, all of us, to care enough about people to build relationships, even when it makes us uncomfortable.
Jim: Amen. And we wanna offer you some hope here. You can do this. It could be as simple as having a conversation with someone as you’re getting your coffee. It could be just somebody on your street. It can start very small. It can be a text that you send to someone that you’re just concerned about, but just keep reaching out because God is going to move in your relationships.
Rod: A simple thing like a compliment. Right, we’ve talked about this before.
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: A simple compliment. People love to feel like somebody sees something in them or about them-
Jim: That’s right.
Rod: Worth complimenting.
Jim: Amen.
Rod: It’s a great way to begin a relationship. All right, we’ll be back with much more. It’s good to be with you today.