The list of options seem limitless when it comes to reaching your maximum potential or helping others get there. There’s coaching, mentorship, accountability partners, etc. So what is the difference and how does coaching specifically focus on hearing what you want to achieve and help you get there.

Transcript

Twanna Henderson: Welcome to T Time: Spiritual Conversations For, With and About Women. I’m your host, Twanna Henderson and I want to remind you to take a moment and like this podcast and share it with your friends and other women in your life. Well I’m so excited about today’s guest. We have with us today, Jason Allison. Jason Allison is the spiritual formation pastor at Press Church in Columbus, Ohio. He also serves as the director of church strengthening for Converge Mid Atlantic, as well as a vision day consultant for 95 network. As a pastor who has served churches of 45 attendees to 2500 attendees, Jason finds fulfilment in helping pastors and churches clarify their mission and vision within their unique cultural context. Having led a church through two mergers to a multisite context, Jason understands the complexity of ministry, and loves helping leaders navigate today’s challenges. His work with Converge Mid Atlantic involves training and deploying coaches, as well as helping churches and pastors through crises and transitions. This summer, Jason is launching a new podcast called The Church Talk podcast with co host Rob Patterson. Jason has been married to Kristen for 27 years, and is the father to two adult children and amazingly, he is also a grandfather of two Jason, welcome to T Time.

Jason Allison: Oh, thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here.

Twanna Henderson: Well, I’m glad to have you. And, you know, your ministry background is very expansive. But in the interest of time, I really want to hone in on your training and coaching background. So just tell us how you got involved with training and deploying coaches?

Jason Allison: Well, the first I mean, the main way is, several years ago, the district executive minister for the Mid Atlantic district asked if I’d be interested in being trained as a coach. He was putting together a group of people that he thought, oh, let’s, let’s see what it would be like to train coaches. And so I said, Sure, you know, and we went through this pretty extensive training and by the end of it, all, 12 of us, there were 12 of us at the time, had gone through. And at the end of it, the guy who was doing the training, asked me if I would be interested in possibly being the coordinator for all of the coaches, just for our district, like, you know, just keep things organized and running. In the process, he said, it would be really great if I could train you to be a trainer in the same system. So, you know, I said, “well, I’m willing to give it a shot. This is kind of new to me, you know, learning this stuff.” And so I thought, well, let’s, let’s go for it. And the district executive minister kind of said, the same thing. He’s like, we really could use some help, just getting this off the ground, we, we hadn’t really done any real coaching within the district, other than every church planter, had someone assigned to them, who would be their coach, but none of the coaches had really received any training. So, you know, it was just one of those, well, you kind of did that once, why don’t you go help them, and just wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t a good way to do things. And so we said, well, let’s try to put some structure to this. And so we did, and I ended up learning how to train. The next time we trained coaches, I trained with the guy who wrote all the material and you know, was the one who was running the organization that train these coaches. And then the third time around, I did the training while he watched. And then the fourth time around just last year, I did it without him at all. So we kind of have grown into that process. And in that process, too. I’ve now come on staff with the district as the director of church strengthening, but that entails overseeing all of our coaching and the training of coaches and among other things.

Twanna Henderson: Okay, okay. Well, let me ask you this, you know, is coaching different from mentoring or counseling? And if so, how? How is it different?

Jason Allison: Yeah, I think coaching is, it’s very different. Because mentoring assumes that I’m an expert, and I’ve got knowledge or experience that I have to share with you to make you better. And counseling, you know, it kind of assumes that I have some training to assess and to diagnose, problems that you may be facing, and then I have the tools to give you to fix those. But coaching, it really focuses on coming alongside someone and helping them accomplish the goals and the vision that they have. It’s not about telling someone what to do. It’s really more about asking powerful questions, asking the person that you’re coaching to help them discover and to clarify what they are trying to achieve, and then really walk with them as they set a course to get there. A coach then on top of that holds a person accountable for, you know, basically doing the things that they said they wanted to do. So it’s not that, you know, they give them some assignment and then grade them, it’s, they sit with the person and walk with the person and say, okay, this is what you’re saying you want to do. So let me help you get there.

Twanna Henderson: I love that idea of coming alongside of the person and walking with them. Which that whole dynamic is just really, I think, amazing. I know, you said that you first went through training yourself. How do you think that coaching has impacted you and just your journey as a leader and as a Christ follower?

Jason Allison: Yeah. You know, I mean, of course, growing up, I had athletic coaches, right, baseball coaches, basketball coaches, all those things. And that was always I had some really, really good ones growing up. And so I was very blessed in that way. But that, you know, once you get to be an adult, you kind of say, okay, now I’m supposed to be the one who knows everything and, you know, does all this and I reached the point several years ago, where I realized in ministry I was I was floundering a bit. I was not, I just wasn’t thriving the way I really thought I should be thriving in ministry. And I wasn’t sure why, I thought I was doing everything the way I was supposed to do it. And I ended up getting in touch with a coach. And you know, I found a way to get one that was outside of my normal group of people I knew so that I could be honest, and talk about it. And so the person that ended up becoming my coach, his name is Dale Sellers, and he’s now the executive director of 95 network of which I, you know, do some consulting with so it’s, he’s become a friend. But at the time, he really, he just came alongside me, and he gave me some perspective. And to hear him tell the story. When he first met me, he really was afraid I was going to just go jump off a bridge, and he talked me off the ledge. I don’t know if it was quite that bad but it did feel like I had reached the end of my rope and in that process of coaching, what I received in that really was hope. I was given this idea that I just had forgotten that God is working. And that helped me understand and then with that, I began finding ways I could coach, because it showed me that doing that can actually not only impact one person, but then it impacts every person that that person then impacts. And so it has this cascading effect where you know, now I’m learning what it is to coach leaders so that they can lead well. I don’t have to be the one doing the leading. I’m the one who helps make sure that the person leading really is ready to go and is healthy.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah. And hope, you know, that’s really the essence of the gospel, hope. You know, you and I’ve had conversations about coaching, and specifically, the training of women coaches, in fact, Bridge Network will be partnering with you in the fall of this year for a coach training track for women leaders. For those listening who may be considering being a coach, tell us why anyone would want to be a coach.

Jason Allison: Well, I’ll tell you right up front, not everyone should be a coach. You know, there’s some people who honestly, I don’t care how much training they have, they really shouldn’t be a coach. And oftentimes, it’s the person who’s really, really good at something or as an expert at something or has had tremendous success in one specific area. They can often make the worst coaches. That sounds bad, but it’s the people who really understand that I want to help other people achieve their God given dreams. And those are the type people when they really feel that call, that that sense of urgency in their soul, that God really has wired me and has shaped me and has given me a personality that is such that I can really help other people move forward in their God given dreams, then that’s the type person that needs to think about coaching and, you know, why would you do that? Well, you would do it because it’s just clear that that’s the way God wired you. And you know, as you as you learn to be a coach as you learn some of the skills that it takes because it’s not just a gifting there are skills that anyone can learn to coach, you began to really understand what it means to to listen to another person to begin to understand how to ask very powerful questions – that are often simple, but being able to ask them, and then just be quiet and listen, and be fully present with that person, I found that it’s actually impacted every other relationship in my life. I’m, I think I’m a better husband, because I’ve, you know, learned some of these skills in coaching. I know I’m a better father, I’m a better pastor, because I’ve learned these things. So I mean, if you have any desire at all, to help other people achieve what they’re trying to achieve, then coaching is something you should really consider.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah and what I hear you saying is that, you know, anyone who was called, can be a coach, I mean, you don’t have to be this major leader, you know, hold this, you know, certain position or, you know, have this expertise, but that you really feel this call and passion to come alongside, you know, someone else, as you said, which really opens it up to, you know, anyone who, who fits into that category, which I believe is amazing. Now, let me ask you this, why would anyone want to get a coach?

Jason Allison: Well, I’d say a coach helps you gain clarity, and clarity on what you’re striving for, as well as then clarifying how you plan to get there. You know, a coach isn’t going to come in and give you a purpose, they’re not going to give you a strategy, what they’re going to do is help you clarify those goals, those ultimate visions that God has given you for achieving something, accomplishing something. And that can be anything from a ministry that you want to start or a ministry that you’re taking over. As you are leading it and developing it, it could be a family goal that you want to see happen within your family, it could be it could be business oriented, there’s just so many ways that it could go. So getting a coach simply is getting someone to help you clarify what it is you’re trying to do, and then really hold you accountable to following through with the things that you’re trying to do. Let’s think when I’m coaching someone like that, there’s an executive pastor now that I’m coaching and, and the biggest thing we do is, is I sit down and say, okay, what are you trying to accomplish? And then I say, Now, what are you going to do to get there? And and we just start working through that. And I say, Well, do you think that’s the best thing? Or can you come up with something else that might work? You know, we just lots of questions like that. I don’t I don’t have the answers for him. I just want to start getting him asking the right questions. And so over the last year, as we’ve done, that, it’s been so amazing to watch him. You know, he’s now saying, I’m learning how to coach the staff that’s under me, so that they then can begin to achieve their their dreams and their goals for their departments for their areas for their ministries. And so whenever you seek a coach, you are seeking someone that will hold you accountable to doing what God has called you to do.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. And the powerful questions, I think that’s that’s the piece that is so important to, to be trained to be able to, to ask those powerful questions. In your experience with training coaches, have you found a difference in how you would train men and women coaches?

Jason Allison: Well, let me ask you this Twanna, you are the the podcast host of this amazing podcast and I don’t know how many men that you have interviewed on the on the podcast. But you know, does it? Do you ask questions differently? Or do you handle the interview differently if it’s a man or a woman on the other side of it?

Twanna Henderson: To che. No, I do not know.

Jason Allison: Exactly, I didn’t think you did. Just knowing you as I do, you treat everybody pretty much the same, which is wonderful. And honestly, the way we train coaches, it has nothing to do with if you’re male or female, any of that. Honestly we train them in a way that hopefully their training will help them become coaches, not only in ministry settings, but in family settings and business settings. You know, one of the guys that I have coached a little bit in the past. You know, he started his own mortgage, brokerage business. It had nothing to do with church. It wasn’t ministry it was, but he needed someone to ask him some of these questions. Now, I know nothing about starting a brokerage, you know, when it comes to the details, but I do know what it what it is to start an organization and to structure things and to set things up in that way. And so I can at least start asking him questions. The last round of training that we did, actually six of the nine people that I trained last year were women, and they were women, you know, within our district and they they went through the exact same training that the men did. They all went through it together. But it was interesting because we, the way we do the training is we have kind of group sessions where all of us are in a thing together. But then we’ll have, we’ll go about three to four months, where we just have what we call, you know, coaching cohorts, or triads, where there’s three of us in a Zoom meeting, usually, because they were from all over these coasts, and but it’s just three at a time. And I had grouped them, the three women, three women, three women and three men, and a different because I thought, well, let’s at least see if the you know how it goes. And watching it was so funny, because literally, I would have a 10 o’clock triad meeting with like the group of men. And then I would have a one o’clock triad meeting with the group with one of the groups of women, we would talk about the exact same material from the, from the book and the workbook. And we would go through, we talk about their experience that week, coaching, whoever, you know, they were supposed to be coaching at the time. And it was completely different the way they would approach the topics. And, and it wasn’t, it was actually I learned so much about coaching, and training this group, because I was able to see wow, you know, people approach this in different ways. And it’s important that the principles that we teach the skills, and the micro skills that we teach, as they, you know, think about coaching, those things become solid, no matter what context they’re coaching in.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. Now, I know, you say that you really need to be called, you know, to coaching or have a passion for coaching, because it’s not for everybody. Are there qualities of a really good coach?

Jason Allison: Yeah, there really are. And I think a lot of people, I think more people have these than realize. But the main one is, you have to truly want the person that you’re coaching to be successful and to thrive. And I mean, you have to, you have to say I want them to just explode with success. And that attitude is the thing that you have to bring to the coaching relationship. You know, you can’t manufacture that you have to really train yourself to think that way. And for me, I really is about a year and a half, two years ago, I was working through a lot of stuff personally and with ministry and just trying to get my life together, so to speak. And I started exploring what is my Simon Sinek uses the phrase, What’s your why? What’s your why statement and, and I just, I really prayed through that for about six months. And I realized that my why statement, the thing that gets me out of bed in the morning is helping people achieve their God given dreams. And that’s what pushes me and that’s really what a coach needs to have that mindset of, of wanting that now, along with that, you got to be able to listen, you got to be able to not fill every every moment of silence with noise. And then you have to be able to ask powerful questions, but that’s a skill that you learn. And so it’s not so much a quality, but the willingness to learn it is.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. So Jason, what do you see as the most powerful aspect of a coaching relationship?

Jason Allison: You know, the discovery listening, and then the powerful questions when those two work together? Well, when the coach is really able to be fully present with the person and hear what’s going on something happens in a person’s spirit. When we do these trainings, we do sections, you know, and discovery listening is one of the sections and within the triads, we do what I call micro coaching, or where we just I tell every, every person as they come to the triad meeting, I said, bring a coachable issue, we may or may not get to it but we do that so that we can give them a chance to try out some of these skills. And it never fails. Men, women, old young, it doesn’t matter. During this time, when I actually put someone on the hot seat and they they are being coached. And then one of the other people in the triad, do the coaching. And all they’re supposed to do is work on discovery listening, and it’s a 10 minute, it’s a 10 minute section, that’s it. And inevitably, there are tears by the end, because a person that I say you know: why were you so moved by that and they said, I’ve never really had someone listened to me at that depth. And you know, these are grown men and women who are like I’ve never had someone listen like that. And that experience is one of those things where when you can be on either end of it receiving it or giving it- it just blesses your soul like you wouldn’t believe.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, you know, that whole concept of listening is sort of like being seen with our ears.

Jason Allison: Yes.

Twanna Henderson: You know, because we want to be seen, and it’s like with our ears. And you know, oftentimes, you know, we don’t really think about coaching relationships as as it relates to the Bible in Scripture. When we look through scripture, are there examples of coaching relationships in the Bible?

Jason Allison: You know, I think there are some examples. Obviously, coaching wasn’t a wasn’t a word that was used in the original text. But you know, if you just think very simply of Paul and Barnabas, and Timothy, you know, right there are some examples of Paul coaching Timothy as he’s trying to lead these churches. Barnabas coaching Paul, when he first, you know, started into this ministry, and this traveling around and stuff. And you know, even in the Old Testament, you’ve got things like Jethro and Moses. Jethro came in, and he asked Moses, some pretty powerful questions, and then said, well, let me show you what you want to do versus what you’re actually doing. You know, there’s a gap there. What what are you going to do to fix that? So I mean, I feel like all through Scripture, there are examples of this type of ministry happening, even though we didn’t necessarily call it coaching in the New Testament. Right?

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. So you know, I know that I shared that Bridge Network is going to be partnering with you. Tell us, you know, what’s next for you. I know, you said that you’ve got a podcast. Tell us a little bit about that?

Jason Allison: Well, it’s one of those things where I just feel like I’ve got some connections and people that if I could get those conversations into the ears of pastors and church leaders all over that it could bless them, and they could truly learn from it and hopefully grow in their ministry. And, and so what I’ve done is I’ve just myself and Rob Patterson, Rob is my co host. I think you know, Rob and Bethany?

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jason Allison: And so we just said, you know, what would it look like for us to have some conversations and just talk about church, and the stuff that’s going on in church, whether it’s a, you know, contemporary story that is happening, you know, a news article, or if it’s some principles, and so we sat down and brainstormed and so I said, you know, let’s, let’s just figure out what it’ll take to get a podcast together, that would actually be helpful. And it’s not just gonna add to the noise, but instead is actually very targeted to those people, and then help encourage them and challenge them. And so we put it together. And we, we’ve got all this stuff together. And we’ve got three episodes recorded, we haven’t released it yet. We’re not publishing it until we get a few in the can. So we can, you know, make sure it’s actually worth publishing. But right now, the three that we have are good, and we’ve got some guests already lined up. And I’m hoping to schedule with you at some point, once we get all the kinks worked out, we’ll, we’ll have you on. I don’t want to have you on until I know, it’s gonna be good.

Twanna Henderson: Oh, well, I know, it’s gonna be good. And, you know, I think, you know, I think it’s still important to really focus on encouraging people in churches, because, you know, we’ve gone through a lot, you know, for the past couple of years, I mean, almost three years now, you know, we’ve gone through a lot. And have you seen that coaching has changed in terms of the focus, you know, with people with the particularly coming through a pandemic?

Jason Allison: Yeah, I think it has. I think it’s changed in that people are less worried about specific areas of expertise. And it kind of goes back to what you were saying just a minute ago. People want to be heard and seen, right? They want to, they want to know that someone else knows they exist. Yeah. And you know, for the last two years, it’s been very difficult to find that. And so people are discouraged. And so having someone to speak, encouragement into your life, really has been just a lifeline to a lot of people. And so that’s, that’s really how I’ve seen it change. It’s less about always being successful in this big, huge, flashy, everything and more about, let me make sure that you are healthy spiritually, emotionally, even physically, because we’ve been so isolated for a while.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, I can see how coaching is just extremely valuable, particularly just in this season. You know, how much it can be helpful to people. And as I said, you know, we’re going to be partnering for a coach training track, specifically designed for women. For those who may be interested in this training or who would like more information, how can they get in contact with you?

Jason Allison: The easiest way is, email to me at Jason@convergemidatlantic.com That’s my, it’s my email address through the district here. You know, and they can reach out to you if if for some reason they can’t get through to me or something weird happens. I know you’ve got my numbers. So yeah, you can have me that way.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, you know, this has been really great. And you know, I really hope and pray that it has just really sparked some things and some people. I know there are probably women who are listening to this podcast and may have never considered being a coach or who after hearing it may feel a tug in that direction. I want to ask you before we close if you can just pray for those who may be considering this call to coaching as well as those who feel that they need to be coached.

Jason Allison: Yeah, I’d love to.

Twanna Henderson: Thank you.

Jason Allison: Oh, Father, I just thank you for thank you for Twanna and just the encouragement that she has been to me not just in the past few months, but even over the years, as I’ve seen her and the ministry that she does, it’s just been so amazing to watch and encouraging. And God, I thank you for all of the women in the Bridge Network that, honestly are just doing so many amazing things in your kingdom. God that they, they are a blessing to everyone. And so God I pray for them, I pray protection around them, because the ministry they do is so important that I’m sure they catch the eye of the enemy. And so I pray a hedge of protection around them as they do all all types of leading in ministries all across the country. God, I pray that as some of them maybe have never even considered themselves as a coach, that they might see that this is an opportunity to use some of those God given talents and skills and passions that that you’ve given them. God, I pray that those that maybe are struggling a little bit but had been leery of reaching out asking for a coach that they would, they would go ahead and step up and know that you know what we all need it. And God you are the God who meets us where we’re at. And so I pray that coaching would become one of those contact points where you touch the people who are really in need of help and need someone just to come alongside them, and to walk with them. God I pray your blessings on the Bridge Network. I pray that you would continue to use it to strengthen women to strengthen the ministries that are represented by them. God, I thank you for your love and your grace. And it’s in Your name I pray. Amen.

Twanna Henderson: Amen. Well Jason, thank you for your ministry, for your humility, and for your leadership. It’s been a pleasure having you and I look forward to working with you this fall.

Jason Allison: Me too. I can’t wait.

Twanna Henderson: And to all of our listeners I’m talking to Henderson I look forward to connecting with you the next time be blessed of the Lord.