What’s the difference between diversity and inclusion? In this conversation, Converge Biblical Diversity Co-Directors Pastor Rod Hairston and Pastor Jim Eaton unpack this important question through the lens of Scripture. 

• Diversity often refers to who is present in the room: the variety of people in our congregations, ministries, or organizations. 

• Inclusion goes further. It’s about empowerment, value, and voice. It means God’s people are not only welcomed but also valued, respected, and empowered to serve. 

Pastors Rod and Jim share real-life stories that highlight how diversity without inclusion can still leave people excluded, rejected, or silenced. The call to biblical diversity is not complete without inclusion. To exclude others is to reject those whom God has embraced. However, when we practice both diversity and inclusion, we reflect the Kingdom of God, where every tribe, tongue, and nation joins together in worship. 

Transcript

Rod Hairston: So man, who asks us questions like this? Like somebody asks the question, what is the difference between diversity and inclusion?

Jim Eaton: Inclusion. Yeah. Big question. Excellent question.

Rod: It’s an excellent question. He’s got the answer, so just listen to him.

Jim: We’re gonna explore it together, bro. Explore it together. I think of it this way. When you have diversity, and both are the, you know, we often will have the umbrella term of diversity, so it’s not a put down of that term, but sometimes when we’re thinking of diversity, we think of it separated from inclusion, which can sometimes mean, like in a church context, oh, we’ve got diversity in the seats. We have different people coming to our service. Inclusion is, “Alright, how many do you have who are in leadership? Who is on your stage? Who’s helping shape the culture of this organization?” In other words, inclusion is, I’m encouraged to bring my full self into this environment. Diversity sometimes can mean, in a shallow way, we want your presence, but we don’t want your input.

Rod: Ooh. And I think, to be fair, sometimes people don’t even know that they are saying that. They’re well-meaning leaders that I’ve known over the years, who’ve they’ve invited diversity, they’ve developed diversity, they’ve created an environment that welcomes diversity, but there hasn’t been any inclusion. And what you often see in those environments is diversity where people almost have to sort of tone down their own culture, ethnicity, their own expressions of worship, for example, so that they fit into that of the dominant culture. But where there is inclusion, as you’re distinguishing, I see inclusion as a word of empowerment.

Jim: That’s it. That’s it.

Rod: Right? It says, we invite and we celebrate fully who you are, what you bring to the table, what we can learn from you. And so we want to give you voice and leadership authority, so that we will follow you.

Jim: That’s right. That’s right. And I think a parallel term with empowerment is valued, because you can say, “Well, you’re welcome here,” but that only goes so far. Am I really welcome here? But when I’m valued, when people start pursuing-

Rod: You’re welcome, as long as you don’t have any power.

Jim: That’s right. As long as you’re just sitting there and you decorate the place, so to speak, then that’s fine. But when people start to value you, as you were saying, you know, how do you process worship? How do you work through conflict? How do you respond to the Word of God? How do you build your marriage? These are not monocultural things. All of these areas where God moves upon our lives had differing cultural expressions of one biblical truth. And so when people are valued and empowered, suddenly you realize, “Okay, I’m in a Bible study in a home, and I have a little different take on that passage. Can I bring that in or can I tell my own story, even if the story feels a little different than all the other stories in the room?”

Rod: Yeah. Yeah. You know, this valuing of inclusion means that you value another person’s, one, their image of God. You value the gifting that God has placed in them. You value their cultural understanding and experience. Because the truth is, we all bring a cultural expression to our experience with God. Whether we believe that or not is true. Right? But when a person’s included, what the majority in the room says, “Oh no, there’s something we can learn from them, from that person-“

Jim: I’m glad you’re bringing this up, because I wanted to kind of tag along with that-

Rod: And we will follow their leadership, if they are assigned to leadership.

Jim: Because sometimes what happens, and I’m not saying that the motives are wrong in this, but it sometimes happens where you have settings, let’s say, where you have a conference and there are people coming into the conference from different cultural settings. And what sometimes happens is the majority culture is assumed to be the ones who can provide the goods. “We can bring you a seminar, we can come to your church and teach you this,” but what if it’s a two-way street? What if majority culture people are going to Vietnamese believers, going to African American believers, going to Hispanic believers and saying, “I’ve noticed this in your ministry, and it’s so powerful and it’s so transforming. Do you have anything packaged? Could you come to our church and teach us?”

Rod: Yes. Yes.

Jim: Then you start, people start to feel included, empowered, valued.

Rod: You and I were together, we were talking to a gentleman, and actually I think he was talking to me alone, but the point is, he said, as the only African American pastor in his church of several hundred people, he was asked to do the funerals. And so he’s doing a funeral for a family who’s white. And when the family came to the funeral, the wife of the deceased would not let him officiate or preach the funeral. She demanded that there be someone else, because she did not want him as a Black man to bury her white husband. And I thought, what a painful and just sad, in such a important moment to fail to include this man who was given leadership authority in that church. He said, “It happened to me twice.” And I think that’s an expression, unfortunately, Jim, of what it looks like to not be included.

Jim: Not be included.

Rod: Where your gifts, your leadership abilities can be unwelcomed in a place where they absolutely should be welcomed.

Jim: Yeah. That’s true. And it manifests itself in all kinds of ways. And I think the only way to come through this, to get to the other side, it goes back to some of the things we’ve already talked about, about empathic listening, about a curiosity, a willingness, if you’re in a culturally diverse setting, a willingness to, with respect and with humility, ask people questions, give them permission to talk freely about how they’re feeling. Don’t just assume that the way that conference went, that service went, that Bible study went, that program went, just because you have a handful of people who are of the same culture as you, come to you with one set of feedback, don’t assume that everyone else feels that. Give other people room to feel safe, to say, “Well, I have a different perspective. Can I share that?” So, please share that perspective and bring it in. Don’t dismiss it.

Rod: That’s good. To not be included is to be excluded. And to be excluded is nothing less than rejection. And rejection is one of the most painful human experiences. And so if we’re gonna make this journey to diversity, we must practice both diversity and inclusion, so that we are not rejecting those whom God has not rejected. Right?

Jim: Amen. Amen.

Rod: And that’s what God told Peter, he says as he’s on the roof in Joppa, right there on the coast of the Mediterranean, given him this vision, he says, “Don’t ever call anything unclean that I’ve called clean.” And then he sends him to Cornelius, to Romans Centurion and to his family where God was including in the gospel this Roman family who would be sort of the spearhead of the gospel going throughout Rome.

Jim: Amen. Amen. And I think it’s like the capstone of all this is, look at Revelation 5:9 or 7:9, and here is the picture of heaven. And all of us are included in worshiping the Lamb. All of us are included in praising God. So why not begin now to learn the principles of inclusion, so people feel, they really feel valued and empowered to live the life God has called ’em to.

Rod: That’s right. Every tribe and tongue.

Jim: Amen.

Rod: Language, nation. You can do this. You can do this. You’re gonna have an opportunity before you know it to make sure that someone who’s been rejected feels included and is gonna be a great learning experience, because biblical diversity, I would say, is gospel.

Jim: Amen.