In this conversation, Converge Biblical Diversity co-directors Pastors Jim Eaton and Rod Hairston explore the concept of cultural intelligence and why it’s a vital part of loving our neighbors in our diverse world. Drawing inspiration from Apostle Paul’s example of “becoming all things to all people” (1 Corinthians 9:22), the video delves into how cultural intelligence isn’t about compromising your beliefs but about understanding, respecting, and adapting to different cultural contexts.

Whether you’re involved in ministry, community work, or simply seeking to connect more deeply with people from all walks of life, these insights offer practical wisdom for embracing differences and building bridges across cultural divides.

Join us as we unpack what it means to be culturally intelligent and discover how to apply these timeless biblical references:

• 1 Corinthians 9:22-23
• 1 Corinthians 9:22-23
• Acts 9:16
• Acts 14
• Acts 17
• Romans 2
• Revelation 7:9-10

Transcript

Rod Hairston: Are you culturally intelligent? That’s a real question, isn’t it?

Jim: It is, it is.

Rod: Are you culturally intelligent? Cuz, you know, there’s a lot of intelligence going around. We got people with great degrees and having great successes. Biblically literate, but maybe not necessarily culturally intelligent. Paul, the Apostle, absolutely was culturally intelligent.

Jim: Yes, yes he was.

Rod: I think of him as not only a great theologian and practitioner of the faith, but I think of him as a great sociologist.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: Right? And he said something very profound when he said, I’ve become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some or save many. Paul was engaged culturally, understanding the dynamics. I wanna steal your word from another video again, the textures of culture in the world and how to reach people. What are your thoughts here, Jim?

Jim: Yeah, I think this is so crucial to living out the gospel in our time. And when the apostle Paul said this- That expression is often thrown around like, well, we don’t wanna be that, we don’t want to try to be everything to everybody and all things, you know. But what Paul was saying was, I have developed and I’m pursuing the skillset of developing the capacity to flex and to move and to bend, not in my beliefs. You read Second Corinthians and you see Paul, he had ironclad beliefs. You read the book of Romans. Okay. So it’s not that, but he had a great flexibility and intelligence to move into different arenas and conduct himself in different ways. And he says it very clearly in First Corinthians nine, he’s doing this for the sake of the gospel.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: Because he feels he has a sacred call from God.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: From the Holy Spirit on the Damascus Road.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: You are to go to the kings and the people of Israel and to the Gentiles, and all three settings are dramatically different. So when you see him in Acts chapter 14 in a Jewish context, and he’s in the synagogue and he speaks, he begins with the prophet Abraham, and he begins to talk about the call to the people of Israel and Moses. Then when you go to Acts 17, and he’s in Athens.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: And he’s on Mars Hill, he goes all the way back to the creative order.

Rod: That’s right.

Jim: God is creator. He weaves in some of the Greek poets. And so he is at the same time in both contexts preaching Jesus, but he’s through cultural intelligence moving toward people’s context so that he gains a hearing. And I think especially in these times where people are so in opposite places in the room-

Rod: Yes.

Jim: We need to incorporate into our vision of biblical diversity, the vital role of cultural intelligence.

Rod: I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m wondering, Jim, can you give a definition of what cultural intelligence is?

Jim: Yes. Cultural intelligence is the capacity to conduct yourself skillfully and with effectiveness in any kind of cultural environment. So when you’re finding yourself in a new cultural environment, you don’t simply smile more or laugh more, or try to be nicer. You learn intelligent skills and understandings about the environment you’re in.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Jim: I’ll give you a very homey illustration. So early in our marriage, I was not maritally intelligent. I thought I was nice, I thought I was loving. I loved my wife with all my heart, but I kept messing up and we were in an argument one time and I went to the store and I bought a Hallmark card, and all this card said was I was an idiot. And I gave it to her, and she just went, that’s nice, honey. Because the truth was I was an idiot. I was not intelligent. I had not really committed myself to learning, how does a woman think?

Rod: Wow.

Jim: What is her world like?

Rod: Wow.

Jim: It’s so much more than just being kind. And it’s the same thing when we’re dealing with people of other cultures. It’s much more, you know, people will say, we’ll hear this in church, we want to welcome everybody. That’s good. But when we were planting Mosaic, we said, we want to be a church that welcomes you, values you, meaning your stories, your expressions, your worship, your pain.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: And empowers you to serve and lead.

Rod: Wow.

Jim: That entails cultural intelligence.

Rod: I love that. Say those three words again.

Jim: We welcome you. That’s being kind.

Rod: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: That’s saying, Hey, we’re glad you’re here. That’s a hug, that’s a handshake. Value you takes it to the next step. We want you to bring your full self into the room.

Rod: Oh, that’s Good.

Jim: How do you process conflict? How do you view politics? How do you see relationships expanding? How do you just every different dimension of life, what are your particular pains or wounds? What are your aspirations and hopes and dreams? And then how do we empower you to be in this context, able to serve and to lead?

Rod: Yeah. I once heard Dr. Sam Chan say that culture in an organization says this is how we do it. And what you just described was an expression of deep respect. So when I think of cultural intelligence as when I think of emotional intelligence, they begin with a deep respect for the emotional experience that a person is having and the cultural experiences that have shaped their lives.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: And I wonder why sometimes we see people’s cultural backgrounds, this is how they do it, this is how they’ve always done it, this is what shaped them. This was the environment that they were immersed in that sort of shaped their cultural values and norms. I wonder why when we see other people’s cultures, we struggle to respect those.

Jim: Yes, yeah. Yeah, I think one of the challenges we have in American culture, because our society has been shaped so deeply for hundreds of years around the social construct of race, which is not a biblical thing thing.

Rod: Sure.

Jim: Because we are so varied in so many ways, but early on we were taught as a society that there’s this race and there’s that race, and you can be one 16th of that or one half of that, all those things. And so we tend to, and I’m speaking primarily from the white perspective, we tend to be a little skittish about these things. We tend to be a little uncomfortable perhaps about really walking into these arenas. Whereas I think sometimes of biblically, God often talks about ethnicity and culture. Those are real things, okay? So your ethnicity is how God made you.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: You and I obviously look a little bit different.

Rod: A little bit.

Jim: God made us different, right? Okay. Those are all good things. They’re a product of the beautiful hand of God. Culture, so it’s like your ethnicity is your house.

Rod: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Jim: Okay. The culture are the contents inside your house.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Jim: And that is infinitely varied and endlessly fascinating, just as people’s emotions are endlessly fascinating. And so if we start to say, all right, when I meet someone, this is a scary thing. This isn’t a, oh, I guess I better get through it. It’s here is another person made in God’s image.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: God has designed a story into their life.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: You know, you and I are doing this listening tour.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Jim: And we’re sitting with leaders all over our movement. And how many times have we processed afterwards and said-

Rod: Yes.

Jim: That person’s story is so different than what we thought it would be.

Rod: Yeah, yeah, you know what’s so amazing is I think about places where Sherry and I have traveled around the world and across the country where the cultures are so different.

Jim: Mm-hm.

Rod: So there’s a culture in the Netherlands that we experienced and I had to adjust. And I’m thinking, I’m a Black man in the Netherlands, and you know, they just don’t speak to you very warmly. Right? I was like, this is whack. But I had to adjust to their culture. And then once you get to know the people, you realize those are very friendly people. We, you know, we’ve been across the Caribbean. My wife is from Trinidad, right?

Jim: Mm.

Rod: I had to learn her culture.

Jim: That’s right, that’s right.

Rod: So when you meet people, we have to assume- I love what you said, the culture is the contents inside. So we can look very similar, but have very different cultural-

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Shaping.

Jim: And vice versa.

Rod: Vice versa.

Jim: Like you and I, we both love cars. We’re car people. And I can send you a text about, I just passed a Benz and it was beautiful, okay? Or you can, you know, that’s something internally that if someone walked up to us they wouldn’t know.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: But that’s something we have in common.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Jim: And that’s not a terribly deep thing, but, you know, there are so many areas of this that God wants us to have the willingness and the passion to say let’s come together.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: Let’s move toward one another. And obviously we’ll get into another conversation in our next video about racial healing. There’s some very difficult places. What cultural intelligence is really more saying, what are the things that God wants us to find out about each other, and so we can move closer together.

Rod: Well, there’s a why behind every culture, right? There’s a why is this valuable to you? Why is this important to you? And I think what we tend to do is we tend to bristle against other people’s cultures that are not ours.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: So if I don’t understand your culture, I will dismiss your culture. Or, you know, we are a nation of canceling other people’s cultures.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Right? And nothing could be more arrogant really. The Apostle Paul talked about this in Romans chapter two, where he talked about this dynamic between the Jews and the Gentiles, right? The Gentiles who were now sort of running the church after Claudius kicked out all the Jews out of Rome, right? And so when these Jewish people come back, they want to come back to the church that they knew, but now there’s all of this gentile influence. And so the cry was, who do you think you are basically. Like, are you more righteous than they are? And he says, no, because you do the same things that they do.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: What he was saying was, no matter what your culture is, you all need Christ.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: And no one’s more right or more righteous because of culture. He was trying to break down cultural arrogance.

Jim: Hmm.

Rod: That was happening in the church. And I think we have seen a lot of that in our day and time, right? Where we sort of place one culture as higher.

Jim: Yes, that’s right.

Rod: And better.

Jim: And I think that is some of the unfortunate legacies of the racial construct of our country.

Rod: Sure.

Jim: Which was constantly saying, this group is here, this group is here. Almost like military rank.

Rod: Yes, yes.

Jim: Right? But God’s design is this. God’s design is every person, every culture they’re a part of is equally designed by God. And so the way to view it is not on a grade, it’s not on a hierarchy. It’s on difference. It’s on all shared humanity and all shared image bearers of God, but very, very different. And the differences are designed to bring delight and joy and mystery and ways for us to come together.

Rod: Man. Well, as you’re describing that, I couldn’t help but think, Jim, about how the media narratives-

Jim: Yes.

Rod: In our land have really shaped this idea of which cultures are or culture is better, right? It sort of shaped this cultural arrogance because when the media says this is what beauty is, right?

Jim: That’s a good point.

Rod: Right? So the media says this is what a good community looks like, right? When the media says, oh, these are bad people over here. And then that gets thrown into the ugly mess of politics.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: Right? Used to really push political agendas.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: Then oftentimes we as believers lose our way.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Because sometimes we think we are being guided by the biblical text when actually we are being guided by-

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Right? By cultural, by narratives within the culture, right, to divide us rather than to say what Jesus said.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: You know every tribe, tongue, and nation, right, is what he is what he is after.

Jim: Yes, that’s right.

Rod: And so I think he calls us, he challenges us to have a deep respect for other people’s culture. I mentioned that Sherry grew up in Trinidad.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: In the Caribbean. And I was so in love with her when I met her. Like I knew like about day two. Oh, you gonna be my wife. I’m gonna marry you.

Jim: It took you whole two days, huh?

Rod: The whole two days, man. And then I realized when I first heard her talk, I heard this beautiful accent. I said, where are you from? She said, I’m from Trinidad. And man, so I wanted to learn Trinidadian food, right? And she started, you know, sharing meals with me. I wanted to learn the music, right, of her country in Trinidad. So a music called Soka, right, which is very different from reggae. Right? Which is rooted in Jamaica, right, but Soka, this beautiful very, what’s the word? Very quick witted.

Jim: Yeah.

Rod: Kind of music, right? And I’m seeing the dance in her culture, and I’m just, and I fell in love, not just with the woman. And I don’t know that we can really connect with people if we can’t embrace their culture.

Jim: I think you’re exactly right. I think you’re exactly right. And I mean Natalie and I had somewhat of a similar experience. We’re both white, our ancestry is white, but I grew up on the other side of the world. She grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and we met in college, and we were both instantly fascinated with each other because I was just blown away. Here’s someone who was born and raised in one town.

Rod: Wow.

Jim: To me that was so compelling and so beautiful. And we could go to her town and we could drive by her elementary school, we could drive by her church. We could, and I’m like, we have to go 12,000 miles for me to show you where I went to school. And I was fascinating to her because I had lived an international life. She was fascinating to me because she had lived a one town, one family, one church American life, and God brought us together. And she had a passion for intercultural ministry. And I wanted, I was asking God to lead me to someone who had some roots.

Rod: Wow.

Jim: And so I was like her adventure, she was my roots. And God has blessed us. And now we have had these shared experiences for so many years, but it’s a beautiful thing when people start to have an awareness of culture and realize this is a good thing. This is not somehow drifting from the gospel. This is embedded in the gospel. I think of one practical area that I’m eager for our movement to understand and to embrace. And that is, in the whole immigrant experience, the immigrant communities know there’s a big difference between the first generation, the people who go through all the sacrifice and the pain and the inconvenience of moving from their host country to America. And by the way, I celebrate immigrants and the immigrant story. They’re heroic.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: And then the second generation are those who are born here. And sometimes we just think either they’re all the same or we forget that the second generation, they’re also part of the immigrant community, but they’re a hybrid. They’re American as well.

Rod: Yes.

Jim: And there’s a whole different story in there. And if we can say, all right, let’s design our ministry style for the first generation. They’re going to need Korean churches. They’re going to need Spanish speaking churches and ministries. The second generation is going to be a different kind of strategy. And we’re going to need people around us who are second generation to show us and teach us and coach us on how do we reach that generation so we don’t lose them. Because many of them are actually moving away from the church because they sometimes feel like they can’t quite fit anywhere. People don’t quite get them. That’s a very practical area of cultural intelligence.

Rod: Yeah, I’m thinking on an even more practical level, right? Just go and eat with someone.

Jim: Hmm.

Rod: Right? When you go to an Ethiopian restaurant, or if you go to a Thai restaurant, right, if you eat southern cuisine, right, southern soul food cuisine, right? You’re embracing somebody’s culture.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Right, because food is so tied and tandem to our cultural experiences.

Jim: Yes.

Rod: Right, so when I was in Morocco a few weeks ago, when we’ve been other places around the world, we just try to taste the food, right, of other cultures because it really sort of checks your inner world.

Jim: It does.

Rod: Right.

Jim: It does.

Rod: Your openness to other people’s cultural norms. I wanna say this last part, Jim, cuz I think it’s really important that we not denigrate people’s culture, right?

Jim: Absolutely.

Rod: Or people’s cultural expressions. We recognize that there is sin in every culture.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: And then there is the presence of God in almost every culture in the world.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Because God has been at work. But it’s important that we not embrace a negative narrative about other people’s cultures, but we try to learn from them.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Out of a deep respect for their cultures. So maybe ask someone, tell me a little bit about your culture.

Jim: Mm.

Rod: What do we miss as people who’ve not experienced your culture? And then just listen.

Jim: Amen.

Rod: Yeah.

Jim: I could not agree more.

Rod: Yeah.

Jim: That’s good.