In this conversation, Pastors Jim Eaton and Rod Hairston, Co-Directors of Converge Biblical Diversity, explore a question they’re often asked in Christian spaces: What’s the difference between biblical diversity and secular diversity? This video discusses a gospel-centered framework for understanding diversity within the Church. Drawing from Scripture, Pastors Jim and Rod clarify that biblical diversity is not a trend — it’s an important part of God’s redemptive plan. 

Together, they highlight: 

• How biblical diversity is rooted in the Great Commission and the vision of the kingdom 

• Where secular ideas about diversity align with biblical values, and where they fall short 

• Why discernment and Scripture must guide believers in conversations about society, culture, and justice 

• The importance of learning from diverse theologians across the global Church 

Join in this thoughtful conversation that invites deeper reflection on how faith shapes our understanding of diversity. 

Transcript

Rod Hairston: All right, so y’all ready for this? Y’all not ready for this? You ready? Okay. What is the difference between biblical diversity and secular diversity? Is the question. And we get this question when we’re working with Christian groups, right? When we’re doing workshops and such, because people want to know what are we saying? Like, are we trying to drag, you know, believers into this thing that secular people practice, are we trying to impose a way and the will of the unbelieving world onto the church world. What are we doing here? What is the difference between biblical diversity and secular diversity?

Jim Eaton: That’s a great question. And as you said, we get asked that a lot. And I think of the root of it or where it starts is different. Because when you’re talking about Jesus sending us forth as His disciples on a mission. He’s saying, I want you to go to all the nations, and I want you to make disciples, and I want you to have a heart that’s open to all people. But what He’s talking about is, He’s talking about creating a new people of God. He’s talking about dissolving and breaking down the barriers of the world. But it’s to bring us together in the body of Christ. And so there’s a different mission. There’s a different cause. And the causes in secular diversity, many of them are very good. But I think of when Jesus is calling us to this, that’s why sometimes when I hear people say, “Well, diversity really isn’t that important.” Let’s just talk about the gospel. Well, this is really hardwired into the gospel, it’s a part of the DNA of how the gospel is presented, how it’s lived out. So, I think of that.

Rod: Yeah, the end game is totally different, right? The end game is toward Revelation, right? What we will see in the kingdom of God, right? Healed nations, right? Every tribe and tongue and people, whom God has redeemed.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Christ has redeemed, right? The end game is toward the redemption of lost people. And secular diversity doesn’t have the worldview.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Right? To care about that notion. But they do oftentimes care about something that God cares about, which is justice, right? Which-

Jim: Human flourishing.

Rod: Human flourishing, right? People having opportunities to flourish and to win, and to grow, right? To live out this ideology that all men are created in the image of God, right? And created to be free to flourish. So it’s not that their ideas are all wrong, it’s just that they are inadequate without the biblical worldview.

Jim: That’s it.

Rod: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah, and I think too, the way that the Spirit of God is calling us to process this, to move or navigate with this. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9, he said, when I’m among the Jewish community, I adapt my style and my approach that way. When I’m among the Gentile community, I adapt my style there. Now he said, when I’m with people who are without the law, meaning the Mosaic, the Old Testament law, I’m like one who’s without the law. But then he says, now, now, it’s not that I’m without the law of Christ, I’m still holding on to that. So what we’re saying is from that text, what the Spirit is saying to us from that text, is biblical diversity is something that we live out that we can’t violate the Word of God in that. So if there are arenas where the secular culture is saying, oh, this is also part of diversity, well, let’s bring this under the umbrella. We have to be lovingly discerning and say, all right, this part is, but this part is not. Because if the word clearly teaches something, we always walk with the Word.

Rod: We walk with the Word. We can’t violate the truth of scripture. I think what we have to be very careful about, Jim, is not allowing those who don’t know the word to hijack the truth and the principle.

Jim: That’s a good point.

Rod: And so, what happens is with these sort of quick reactions, these defensive responses, we so quickly dismiss that which is biblical as though it were unbiblical because we’ve not taken the time to really research the scriptures and to see where does this fit into the framework of God’s word.

Jim: I think that’s exactly right. And I think, you know, we were talking earlier about it’s much easier to let other people do our thinking for us, to simply turn on a news broadcast or a podcast, or follow somebody on Facebook, or Instagram, or whatever, and let them articulate everything for us, whether they’re believers or not. And then we are sometimes kind of lazy and passive about really exploring the Word of God itself as to what God is saying. And so in this area, God is very clearly for diversity and inclusion. He is clearly calling us to come together, to love one another, to be living in deference to and consideration and dignity and respect for one another. That’s all part of biblical diversity. But he’s also saying, be discerning, that the ways of the world and the prince of lies, the father of lies, is going to try to weave things in there that are not from God’s Word. And the Word simply says, okay, when you encounter an ideology that is not from God’s Word, then expose it. So call it what it is. But continue to move in diversity. Don’t throw the baby out with his bath water. Don’t say, well, I was watching some news program and they talked about diversity and it wasn’t biblical. Therefore, I’m throwing out all diversity. That takes us away from the Word.

Rod: Yeah, and it gets… Well, back to another video we did, right? It gets thrown into this woke conversation.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: And make sure you watch that video because we tried to break that down also. But I want to venture something else that I think is really important why we struggle with this notion of biblical diversity versus secular diversity and want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and that is perhaps because we have become so settled on our theological understanding and systems that we don’t have any more room to grow. So, most of us learn our theology within certain cultural experiences in our churches or in seminaries. And we suppose that I’ve learned enough, I got enough, I got all I need to know, and there’s no more of God’s Word to be revealed to me and to be explored. And so I just operate on the basis of what I have been taught so that when a new teaching is brought to us, we often resist it and rebuff it. And so, my question is, what is the Holy Spirit doing? What is the Holy Spirit saying? What is He doing in the interest of accelerating the Great Commission in our day and time? Because clearly, the whole world is at a restless place.

Jim: Yes, yes.

Rod: And Jesus must be surely, we know that the return of the Lord is imminent.

Jim: Amen.

Rod: I just feel like he’s speeding up the, you know, speeding up, he’s getting ready. And so, I just want to challenge us, right? Like, be open to learning new. Nobody’s saying don’t hold on to the foundational truths.

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: That we know are right and good and biblical, but we should be willing to learn more so that we can continue to grow and really grasp this whole notion of diversity.

Jim: Yeah, and I think this comes in a way, it’s kind of coming full circle because it points out the importance for us to be really aware of the best theologians and Christian leaders around the world. Because sometimes we encounter something to us in the Western church, oh, that sounds new, but in reality, it could be that Malaysian believers have explored and mined out this principle of scripture in their context, and we simply haven’t bothered to hear them. Because there are many lessons that God has for the church in the West from believers, leaders, theologians in the global south and in the east and many other places. And I think while we do want to be careful about just jumping on any band wagon, or oh, there’s some new theological whim. Yeah, be careful, be discerning. Always screen it through the Word. But also be aware that sometimes, I think this is what you were saying, is sometimes the way we approach a particular issue is only confined to one strand of the church. And we haven’t really exposed ourselves to Christians in Kenya or Christians in Indonesia, or Christians who are teaching the Word out of Saudi Arabia, or somewhere where they’ve encountered a very different environment that actually might be closer to the New Testament itself. And if we would keep ourselves open, we would say, “I don’t have any issue with diversity.” That’s God’s idea. I’m just going to be discerning and not allow the things of the world to come into it.

Rod: Yeah. Jim, let me talk to our audience. If the only theologians who can shape your understanding of the Word look like you, you’ll never understand diversity.

Jim: That’s it.

Rod: Because, you know, the seminaries that I attended, and the theologians who appear in my Bible software, most of them don’t have any melanin, right? They’re all white theologians. And yet there are great theologians historically who don’t look like the majority culture in America, right? And how could there be an Augustine?

Jim: That’s right.

Rod: Of Hippo.

Jim: Yeah.

Rod: And we only look at white theology, if you will. I think we can get clearer about biblical diversity versus secular diversity if we will diversify and be open to a more diverse look at biblical theology.

Jim: Amen. Some good word.

Rod: All right, that was more than I bargained for. I hope this was helpful to you. What we simply want to say is, biblical diversity is biblical, and that secular diversity embraces things that are not biblical. And you can trust what God says. But make sure that you study the scriptures, that you read them, that you ask the questions, and that you be curious and open to learning. So that we can all do this together.

Jim: Amen.